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07 December 2005 @ 03:48 pm
Creationism as mythology  
Dear gods...


I just saw Matt's comment in my recent post about KU withdrawing the Intelligent Design/Creation Myth course. The professor of that course has since been put in the hospital due to BEING BEATEN!

On the one hand, I want all of my friends to run screaming from Kansas. On the other hand, if all the good people keep leaving, what's left to stop these terrorists?

Many comments in Kansas indicate the belief that Mirecki faked the whole thing. If evidence indicating that were to come to light that'd be one thing, but the only evidence indicating this is that Mirecki seems a bit confused about what happened. Gee, I can't imagine why he might be a bit shaken up.

I need some good news, damnit. Or at least a good laugh...
Superpositional Reality Grenade: Pear Puzzle - slowishdeliciouspear on December 8th, 2005 12:09 am (UTC)
"I want all of my friends to run screaming from Kansas. On the other hand, if all the good people keep leaving, what's left to stop these terrorists?"

That's sort of how I feel about the USA in general.

I don't think I ever asked what Town/City in Kansas you're from.
Kburgunder on December 8th, 2005 12:14 am (UTC)
Ask me in person sometime since this is a public post :) Do I remember correctly that you have relatives from the area?
Superpositional Reality Grenadedeliciouspear on December 8th, 2005 12:16 am (UTC)
I was born in Kansas City.

Most of my family is from Burlington and/or Waverly.
Kburgunder on December 8th, 2005 12:25 am (UTC)
Ah! I've been to the airport and Pizza Hut in Burlington :) My college sweetheart had a place he was working on in a hangar there. I was born in KC, too. I don't think I knew this about you! When did you leave the area?
Superpositional Reality Grenadedeliciouspear on December 8th, 2005 12:42 am (UTC)
You did TOO!

You're just surprised every time!
Kburgunder on December 8th, 2005 12:48 am (UTC)
Feh. My memory is gone. I'm turning into a goldfish, like in that ani difranco song: And the little plastic castle is a surprise everytime...

Sigh. I guess I'll get some gingko next time I hit an herbalist, cuz this is just getting ridiculous.
Sarah: Nerdsarmonster on December 8th, 2005 12:33 am (UTC)
Well, the good nes is this: http://www.venganza.org/

Which I'm sure you've seen.

Oh, yes, just the little I've seen on him, I ♥ Mirecki. THATs a man.
Kburgunder on December 8th, 2005 01:08 am (UTC)
Thank you - I needed that!
VAXhackervaxhacker on December 8th, 2005 02:00 am (UTC)
Well, the Spaghetti Monster is interesting, but I think Cthulu would be more entertaining... Is there an Intelligent Design Bent on Destroying the World and Eating Everyone's Brains branch of the theory?
VAXhackervaxhacker on December 8th, 2005 12:38 am (UTC)
Because we all know that attacking and beating up people who disagree with you is what followers of Jesus are supposed to do... oh, wait, no, the one time that was recorded in the Bible, Jesus healed the victim, told his follower to put away his sword and knock it off, and let the attacked person lead him to his own violent death... um, yeah. And these people are presumably Biblical Fundamentalists who follow the Bible literally?

Maybe it's a literacy problem. What? Read the Bible?

Sometimes I think the worst enemy of Christianity are the Christians.

VAXhackervaxhacker on December 8th, 2005 12:53 am (UTC)
And yes, I'm a Christian. I know we're not perfect, but... come on. Beating up people is a pretty basic concept.
Kburgunder on December 8th, 2005 01:07 am (UTC)
Sometimes I think the worst enemy of Christianity are the Christians.

Amen. I've found myself recently having to correct myself to use the word "Fundamentalist" and not "Christian" when I'm referring to the glorious antics of hatemongers who call themselves Christians. If it weren't for you, Sara, my dad and a few other devout Christian friends of mine, as well as a very peaceful, loving environment from my childhood Presbyterian days, the media and the fundamentalists' love of being in it would probably cause me to lose all perspective on Christianity.

Another point for the argument that ignorance fuels hatred. I'm starting to really feel dislike bordering on hatred for some of the groups that are hate mongering under the Christian flag. I wonder if that means I have some ignorance to fix, too... I'm very reluctant to go on a discovery mission though. I have a difficult time believing I can find good intentions behind the persecution of gays. I am ready to live in tolerant respect with my Catholic college friend's "hate the sin, not the sinner" or gays who enroll themselves in classes to try to not be gay, but all I seem to have is intolerance (usually fueled by ignorance, right?) for people who want to condemn or even kill gays for being an "affront to God".

The God I believed in and loved in my childhood didn't turn away lepers or prostitutes or murderers, and my math indicates that if same sex love is a sin (not something I personally believe in, but I have some Kansas born tolerance built in for this belief), it is a far lesser sin than murder.

One of these days I'll have a short response to one of your comments, ha!

One more thing - there was a young black man in England who was killed by an axe 1-2 weeks ago due to racism. His mother was a devout Christian and has raised her kids to forgive the ignorant and bless this woman's heart, she has actually been very public about forgiving the two boys who murdered her 15-year-old baby. I know that what she's doing is the right thing, and the only thing that ever stops months or 300 years of vengeance killing. I also know that I couldn't be that brave and golden hearted at this point in my life. It's given me a lot to think about. The ideal, where I'm at, the disparity in between.... I hope more Christians like her have the chance to speak to the media and maybe inspire a few Fundamentalists to forgive gays or scientists their perceived transgressions if this woman can forgive her son's murderers...
VAXhackervaxhacker on December 8th, 2005 01:56 am (UTC)
And, to be fair, the fundamentalist fringe of Islam causing the same problem for all the peace-loving Muslims who aren't terrorists. Or any religion (or even political ideal) which is hijacked by a few people prone to use violence to gain power over others by wrapping it in some sort of flag to justify it.

In every religion it seems like it's always the fundamentalists who are prone to do this... those who just can't perceive the world as anything other than absolute black and white, and that the interpretation of their beliefs must never, ever be open for change or refinement, let alone anything about the religion ever change or adapt to new conditions (or correct past mistakes in belief held by the group). With this seems to come a willingness (even elevating it to the level of virtue) to stop thinking and reasoning for oneself and just be led blindly and be increasingly (and sometimes violently) intolerant of anyone who challenges your world view.

And, like the fundamentalist leaders of Jesus' time (the only people he really was recorded as severely disagreeing with), they talk the talk of their religion but totally miss the mark of what it's all supposed to mean.

I'm not even referring to any specific religion or denomination here; but to a mode of thought that you can, sadly, find among the membership of all of them. It really frustrates and annoys me to find the fundies in my own church.

Speaking of which, it's interesting to see the various "fundamentalist" splinter groups which broke away from my own church in the last century and a half or so. It seems like it's usually due to inflexibility to change (to the common interpretation of something, once further information is available, or to the teachings or practices themselves). And for a religion founded on the very idea of continuing revelation, which often clarifies mistaken beliefs and causes change, where you'd actually expect changes to be made... the cry from a few more fundie-minded people of "OMG you can't change that!" is always a bit surprising.

And on your last point. Wow. I totally admire the mother for being able to forgive like that. I'm not sure I could, although I hope I would be able to if I were (God forbid) in a similar situation. I have made enough mistakes in my life to recognize that people can still have intrinsic value even if they do bad things, and that it's possible to detest something they do, but still love and forgive them, although particularly for something as horrific as murder, they may still need to face the consequences of what they've done.

Sarahsarmonster on December 8th, 2005 04:18 am (UTC)
There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it.

-Niven's Law # 16