Log in

No account? Create an account
11 November 2008 @ 06:00 pm
Heterosexual Olbermann on Prop. 8 in California  
The VFR Chickthevfrchick on November 12th, 2008 02:29 am (UTC)
This makes my heart a little heavy..
Douglaschiaspod on November 12th, 2008 03:27 am (UTC)
Awesome! Now that we've eliminated racism officially, are we going to identify people by their orientation?
Kburgunder on November 12th, 2008 06:10 am (UTC)
I'm sorry, what did you say, white boy? ;>
Douglaschiaspod on November 12th, 2008 06:45 am (UTC)
Sorry, that's so pre-Obamania. The New York Times declared racism dead. We're now color-blind, red.
Kburgunder on November 12th, 2008 06:52 am (UTC)
I'll be damned. Pardon me while I download this new fantasy paradigm...
bitterfun on November 12th, 2008 03:53 am (UTC)
"Heterosexual Olbermann on Prop. 8 in California"

Wait a second... you mean there's a homosexual Olbermann?
Kburgunder on November 12th, 2008 06:12 am (UTC)
Yep. She's gay, black, disabled and Baptist.

(am I forgetting something? i think i am)
Kburgunder on November 12th, 2008 06:33 am (UTC)
Oh, and he's 12. I forgot age discrimination. Tsk, tsk.
vaxhacker on November 12th, 2008 04:30 am (UTC)
Well said.
Kburgunder on November 12th, 2008 06:18 am (UTC)
My only discomfort with it is that I wish it was a tiny bit less admonishing, because I know how people turn their ears off to that kind of thing.

I keep thinking of a great William Defoe quote in an interview:

"Which do you prefer to play, a hero or a villain?"
William Defoe: "It doesn't matter because all people think they are righteous."

I'm not sure in what way one schools someone without letting them know they're being schooled. I think his point about harming any net positive love in the world is outstanding and what many people truly need to hear right now, to start to see the issue from a new angle. But assuming these people are actively and maliciously being hateful ... maybe they are, but nobody wants to hear that. And I would love, for once, for this video to speak to someone besides the choir. Y'know? :/
Kburgunder on November 12th, 2008 06:40 am (UTC)
On a second viewing, I think he very nearly has my requirements nailed. But maybe the choir effect is stronger the second time... Hmm.
vaxhacker on November 12th, 2008 06:40 am (UTC)
Yeah, but... a lot of that needed to be said. Yes, there is another side to the story, and it's not that simple or black and white when world views (deeply and sincerely held) collide. But it's never a bad idea to remind folks about showing love, understanding and tolerance for one another. And I'm never in favor of one group, however sincere or well-meaning from their point of view, legislating their religious views on others who don't subscribe to them.

I know there are plenty of people who are completely homophobic and bigoted. But I don't know any of them. From what I got to see, the pro-8 people weren't malicious or hateful. Unfortunately some of their point of view was fueled by misinformation and fear. That's another issue to contend with too.
Kriskfrye on November 12th, 2008 06:54 pm (UTC)
Except taking away someone'S right to marry is a pretty malicious and hateful act. It's saying "You're not good enough to have what I have."

I'm sure there were a lot of people who sincerely believed that black people weren't as good as white people, and weren't foaming at the mouth about it. But it was still wrong.
vaxhacker on November 12th, 2008 07:14 pm (UTC)
I agree. And I think if I didn't know, and talk at length with, as many people who were for prop-8, I'm not sure I could even comprehend any answer to "what's it to you what others choose to do?"

But malice and hate are descriptions of intent. I'm just saying I didn't see either in the people I spoke with. I still think the amendment was wrong, and it ended up hurting people, and small consolation it may be to be told that your rights are being unfairly infringed upon, but it's not because they want you to die in a fire. At least....


And to your other example, yes, I'm sure that's correct. And it was still wrong, too. It does take a lot of time and work for people to lighten up on anything considered taboo... but maybe I'm too optimistic or naive (?) but I think it might make that process go a little faster not to ascribe unfairness driven by misplaced fear or other things, to explicit hatred and mailce.
Kriskfrye on November 12th, 2008 06:50 pm (UTC)
Olbermann definitely preaches to the choir, and he can be completely overbearing about it. But he was pretty much the only voice in the MSM (besides Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, who I'm not sure really count as members of the MSM) that pointed out all the awful things the Bushies have done and how unacceptable it all was. He gave a voice to those of us who were angry, and he deserves a lot of credit for that.

But I'm quickly becoming a convert to Rachel Maddow. She's just as sharp and liberal, but she's not angry about it. I will expose you to her when you come visit!
vaxhacker on November 12th, 2008 07:08 pm (UTC)
I love Rachel Maddow.